New Delhi, August 17, 2024
Sam Pitroda, the Chairman of the Indian Overseas Congress (IOC), feels that the Chief Adviser to the interim government in Bangladesh, Muhammad Yunus, should take all necessary steps to safeguard the minorities and to maintain a good relationship with India like before.
In a free-flowing chat with IANS, Pitroda spoke on a range of issues, from the turmoil in Bangladesh, the mistake committed by ousted PM Sheikh Hasina, to the upcoming Assembly elections in Jammu and Kashmir and Haryana.
He also denounced the idea of ‘One Nation, One Election’, saying that India is too diverse and complex for such a policy as the country “thrives on diversity, not uniformity”.
Here are excerpts from the interview:
IANS: What according to you was the biggest mistake committed by Sheikh Hasina in Bangladesh?
Sam Pitroda: People make decisions based on their perceptions of leadership and the positions they hold. However, from an external viewpoint, things appeared somewhat dictatorial.
I recall when she (Hasina) put Yunus under scanner; globally, many people were unhappy because he had a significant reputation. He won a Nobel Prize and devoted his life to Bangladesh and its poor people.
While we may not agree with everything he did, he did deserve a lot more respect. Hasina’s actions sent a global signal of a dictatorial attitude in governance, putting democracy under threat.
Similar scenario is unfolding in many parts of the world, where institutions such as the election commission, judiciary, universities, tax departments, and police are being suppressed, leading to unnecessary harassment.
Maybe the situation in Bangladesh reached a point where it suddenly spiralled out of control. It was surprising, especially considering the speed at which it happened.
IANS: During his Independence Day speech, Prime Minister Narendra Modi expressed concerns about the minorities in Bangladesh and hoped the situation would normalise soon. What’s your view on this?
Sam Pitroda: I agree with the Prime Minister. We should be concerned about minorities everywhere, including in India. Hopefully, Yunus will follow his commitment to working on this issue.
IANS: Are conditions like those in Bangladesh visible in India as well?
Sam Pitroda: India is a vastly different country — too big, diverse, and complex. India is much more aware of democracy and its roots. I would not put India in the same league as Bangladesh, mainly because of the population and the kind of democracy we have.
However, there is always the danger of an authoritarian attitude. Look at America; I came here 60 years ago and never thought there would be a day when America would need to be concerned about authoritarianism. We believe American institutions are fairly robust, be it the judiciary, security, students, or universities. American institutions are independent and full of talent and courage.
Many of our institutions lack the courage to stand up for what is right. So, while India is different, anything can happen.
IANS: Was it right for India to give asylum to Sheikh Hasina?
Sam Pitroda: That is for India to decide. It’s up to the Indian foreign policy experts to make that decision. We share a good relationship with Bangladesh. We should work out a way that makes everyone happy — Bangladesh, India, and Sheikh Hasina. We don’t want any further disturbances.
It is in the interest of India, Bangladesh, and other nations to ensure that the neighbouring country returns to normalcy as soon as possible. If Sheikh Hasina has to stay in India for a while, I’m sure it will be okay. We can work things out.
IANS: We share good relations with Bangladesh. However, after Sheikh Hasina’s ouster and formation of an interim government, do you think the relationship will remain the same?
Sam Pitroda: It’s hard to say how things will unfold there but if people like Muhammad Yunus are at the helm, I can assure you the relationships will remain good. I know him personally for over 30 years.
I respect him, and we share a good friendship. He is a man with a vision and is well-respected worldwide. He would want a good relationship with India because he understands its value. We also want good relations with Bangladesh.
IANS: In his Independence Day speech, PM Modi reiterated his call for ‘One Nation, One Election’. What’s your take on that?
Sam Pitroda: It is not possible to hold ‘one election’ in India, as we have 30 states. It is not practical. Some people want uniformity, but India stands for diversity.
There can’t be uniformity in India, as it thrives on diversity — there are multiple languages, cultures, and views, that’s what India is. Don’t force uniformity on India, it won’t work.
This is what people with an authoritarian mindset try to do. It doesn’t work in the long run. The Prime Minister has a tendency to lie about many things, so I don’t pay attention to him.
IANS: There is a debate in India regarding reservations. What do you think about the creamy layer among SCs and STs? Should they also benefit from reservation?
Sam Pitroda: This is a very complex matter. The bottom line is we need to uplift a large number of people from the bottom of the pyramid who are deprived in many ways — jobs, education… Our priority has to be lifting them, and it’s going to be painful. It’s not easy.
In America, we find a similar situation with minorities. Inequality and exclusion are challenges, and we can’t make everyone happy. Unfortunately, in India, there is the added dimension of caste. I don’t care about who is a Brahmin or who is not, but the society does. So it’s our job to uplift people.
We need to look at the number of SC/ST/OBC people holding key positions in universities, banks, etc. As Rahul Gandhi has said, top 10 per cent of the people control 90 per cent of the jobs.
There is a lot of talent, and no one should underestimate it. They (SC/ST/OBCs) may not have degrees, but they are artisans, craftsmen, and musicians. They do most of the work — they construct things — but they don’t get the respect and share of the economy they deserve.
IANS: You have once again become the Chairman of the Overseas Congress. Do you think your statement on inheritance tax mis-interpreted or taken out of context?
Sam Pitroda: I stand by what I said. I know India has trolls and liars, and people are paid to attack. I take that as part of the package. I never said inheritance tax should be introduced in India.
I said this is what happens in America, which is fine. Even if I had said it, in India, there is a system of having debates and discussions in the Parliament, and voting. These things don’t just happen because Sam Pitroda said it.
If you want to distract from important conversations during elections, like the economy, inflation, or unemployment, you go after Sam Pitroda. It’s an organised attack by a bunch of people hired to do such things on social media.
Another example is when I talked about diversity — it was on the media for 10 days, and no one spoke about it. But all of a sudden, the Prime Minister spoke, and it became a big issue on national television.
IANS: In his Independence Day speech, PM Modi also said that a large section of the country believes that we should move from a ‘communal civil code’ towards a ‘secular civil code’. What’s your take on that?
Sam Pitroda: I don’t know… I’m no legal expert. I do believe in equality, inclusion, and diversity. Lawyers will have to sort this out. I’m not qualified to comment on this.
IANS: The Election Commission announced poll dates for Jammu and Kashmir and Haryana. This is the first time that elections are being held in J&K after the abrogation of Article 370. How do you see it?
Sam Pitroda: I would urge people to come out and vote in large numbers because it’s their way of standing up for the kind of Kashmir they want. I would like to see 80 per cent or higher voter turnout. I want everyone to ensure they are on the right voter list, so that there’s no confusion at the last minute. I want free and fair elections in Kashmir.
I’m not happy with the recent elections, like in Odisha, where there were 40 lakh extra votes — where did they come from? People are asking questions to the Election Commission and the Supreme Court, but there are no answers, which is just not acceptable.
If such things happen, you lose confidence, and that’s not a fair election. In India, if you question the EC, people say it’s not right. Of course it’s right, and it is the job of the citizens to raise questions.
My request is to watch every booth, count the number of people who vote and tally it so that the EC doesn’t come up with more votes.
IANS: There are reports that Rahul Gandhi will visit the US in September. What will be his events and programmes? Also, as the EC has announced election dates, will Rahul Gandhi postpone his US trip?
Sam Pitroda: It’s too early to talk about his visit. We’ve been working on it. Hopefully, when the dates are finalised we’ll hold a press conference. If the trip gets postponed, it will be Rahul Gandhi’s decision.
IANS: There are reports of Rahul Gandhi meeting Khaleda Zia’s son, Tariq Rehman, during his visit to London. What was the reason for this meeting?
Sam Pitroda: First of all, the reports were wrong. I was with Rahul Gandhi all the time (in London). But in India, lying is a simple thing and this kind of misinformation keeps spreading. I don’t pay attention to such misinformation. People get paid to lie, so what do you do? You just live with it…(Agency)
